Question on ship prices -

[Shelix]

To whom it may concern:

   My corporation is looking to secure a contract for some ships; the first part of this is two Charon-class freighters.  Someone pointed me out to this site amidst my research, and I stopped by anticipating being able to take care of all of our needs with ease. 

Imagine my surprise to see that every single ship that we're looking for is not only more expensive, but significantly more expensive than any contract offers we're gotten either in-game, or in the Eve-Online forums. 

I suppose I'm just a bit mystified - I saw the slogan, "Fair prices" and such, and when I look at your actual prices, I realize that I could be a ship reseller and still charge less money than ICSC does. 

I'm not flaming, just curious as to the justification for such significantly higher prices.

-Shelix

[Shard]

Good day Shelix- let me try to answer your question, as I am sure a lot of other people wonder about the same thing.

When we started ICSC 11 months ago, we only built one or two freighters.  After the initial run on freighters, we set our prices based on the mineral market, and the effort that goes into making a Capital ship.  Since them we have grown substantially, and now have 33 capital ship BPOs.

We also have the component BPOs to support building these ships non-stop.  Over the course of the last year we have built and sold over 300 capital ships.  With these BPO’s we are making more than 2 capital ships per day.

Two capital ships per day, everyday, requires insane amounts of minerals to build.  We are not miners, therefore we have to buy our minerals off the market.  When you buy in huge bulk, you have to pay more for the minerals.  Check the markets and see what the costs are for minerals that are in one location, in bulk.  You will see what I mean.

As a rough guide, this is what we require in minerals per week, when our production is running at 100%:
1,621,241,888 Tritanium
 338,493,176 Pyerite
 128,775,528 Mexallon
 20,281,296 Isogen
 5,888,960 Nocxium
 1,027,152 Zydrine
 439,936 Megacyte

Also, keep in mind that we are a group of individuals, not a single corp or alliance, nor do we have entire corps working for us.  This is mainly the effort of a handful of people; many of us also run our own corporations separate from ICSC, or are in a number of different alliances. 

So, based on the limited manpower we can put into the project, the sheer volume of minerals needed to maintain production, the fact that we build and stock every item for those “I need it now!” situations, that we do not mine any ore, that we have to pay higher prices for minerals due to the quantities needed, that we have to coordinate with hundreds of customers and each other to maintain a production system capable of reliably supplying capital ships to customers, and you see why our prices are where they are now. 

We have a formula that we use to set our prices, for all capital ships.  We have lowered our prices versus the mineral market repeatedly over the course of time to keep prices at a good value for both ourselves and the customers.  However, now we are victims of our own success.  We cannot acquire minerals through mining nor the market as low as other smaller builders can.  We do not command corporations that are dedicated to ICSC production.  And we have not had the opportunities many others have, based on our success and volume, to research our capital ship BPOs.  Therefore, our costs are higher than single or smaller cap ship producers.  As we enter this time period where there are more producers willing to sell at lower prices to move their ships, we are still busy filling orders, and cycling our ship bpos into ME research.  Eventually we will have all the ship bpos researched and will be able to offer more competitive pricing with the current market.  But we will never be the lowest priced producer going forward, based on the higher costs we have to incur.  Capital ship construction is a ton of work; we will stop selling long before we do it for little to no profits.

[Callan Skiderlar]

 There is also value in reliability and consistency of service. Sure, you may occasionally find a ship or two on escrow for less price, and you may find someone who promises you a price 5% lower. But what if you have to tie up a bunch of isk by buying it before you can use it, or if you're finally ready and can't find one at a cheaper price? What happens if your contracted buyer no longer responds to your inquiries or tells you he has to delay your delivery because he's going to Europe for a few weeks?

 We have a lot of isk and time investment in our logistics that allows us to provide fair quotes with reliable delivery dates for the full spectrum of capital ships, and we have a long track record of success. We're not going anywhere and set the standard for the market that helps stabilize the market and allows buyers to find aggressively priced deals. If ICSC was not setting the bar of a reliable, risk-free price, you would see a lot more volatility in price and availability. It is a role that more experienced buyers appreciate.
 As Shard said, we will never be the lowest, but we will always be the most reliable. If your capital purchase is forcing you to scrape together that last isk, we may not be the shop for you. More successful buyers and repeat buyers, however, don't mind paying a little extra to have a one-stop shop available for all of their needs.

[woodhouse]

"This is mainly the effort of a handful of people"

Hmmm... Yes and very impressive is the scale to which you have taken these operations.
I know because me and my friends have done something similar on a much smaller scale.
Trit, Pyro and Mex is hard to get hold of in big quantities.    But even at inflated prices you are still making in excess of 400 Million per cap ship.   Since you have sold 300 Cap ships that is 120 Billion Isk profit you guys made.   And that's just the ships.  The mods you are selling have a slightly higher markup.  So all in all your 'handful of people' are rolling in about 200 Billion Isk.   And so desperate are you to have all that 'lovely money' that you put BPO's into production without researching them first.   Of course you will say that most of that money goes into buying more Capital BPO's...  Like because you have bought BPO's that all that money no longer exists.   Don't get me wrong though, our guys love the money and the power too.   We wake up each day and get print outs of our wallets and assets, and then rub them in faces whilst making noises that are difficult to explain in writing.  I guess we are a little bit jealous that you are beating us hands down in the quest to become Masters of the Universe.   When you finally have that Trillion Isk in your wallet, you can raise that big man sword and belt out the immortal line "I have the power!"

[Garina]

hmmm, I don't know what to answer to that.

I'm puzzled if that is either greed, frustration or just jealousy.

Anyhow, we are no charity and we tell everybody, if they find cheaper ships, go for them, no hard feelings.

Yes we are in to make ISK, but who isn't. If you don't like it, move on. Nothing to see here.

Oh and before you spill speculations as hard facts about our operations and our profits or whatnot, go back home and do your homework first....

always the necromantics.....

[woodhouse]

Sorry, just having a bit of fun.

I was just being like one of those guys on the chat shows that is put in to say a whole bunch of outragious stuff that shocks everyone.   Yes I did speculate, and I am probably wrong by some margin.

For the record, I fully respect this website and your in game efforts.
The bottom line is that no one should be complaining about prices on this site.   
The way to complain is to not buy.

Hope to see some of you guys at the Eve fest this year.   Shard, Ellison... this is Gelt.   Nice to see you have not lost any enthusiasm for this game.

[Escoce]

you know I was just reading this thread again for the umpteenth time. You know the amount of profit this guys get is not as high as you might think. Really, just trading I make about 40 million an hour. They have to work months to get the profits they do. IN a day to day scheme of things they aren't making any money at all profit wise over time.

I just thought I would toss that in there.

Escoce